With the Gin Carrera is appears that there are some "new" decent techniques available such as the b3 and now in this video the c3.
Friday, February 7, 2014
Monday, February 3, 2014
Paraglider high wind landing - Discussion of what to do in this very dangerous situation.
I remember having such a great time the first time I flew the South Side in Draper, Utah. It was the highest wind I had ever flown in, and this "training hill" looks deceptively safe and benign. It took me many attempts to even get my wing to the edge of the hill, the winds were so strong but I was determined to fly with the other pilots there that summer day. I finally was able to launch in a minor lull in the wind. Had a terrific flight and nonchalantly came in for a top landing. I didn't realize that my leg straps where now loose due to the earlier fighting to launch. That allowed me to not feel my wing re-inflate in time and I was ripped off my feet with the violence of a car crash or tackle by a pro line-backer. It hurt my neck, my ego too. I realized perhaps there was a reason helmets are required and this experience reminded me to never let your guard down in paragliding. The following is a discussion on facebook started by Nate Johnson from the Utah Hang Gliding and Paragliding Association. I'm sharing it to all paragliding pilots because a prepared pilot is a much safer pilot.
Discussion
- if you were to be landing in a high wind situation, to the point of
landing moving backwards, what techniques would you use to accomplish
this safely? I haven't had the pleasure of experiencing this yet as I
recognize the potential hazard early and land before this happens, but
It could happen - say on a long XC. I have many theories, but I'd like
to hear if others experiences or theories align with mine? Second, after
landing safely in the above situation what is
a good technique for reeling in the wing and getting it safely balled
up? This I have experienced. Land safely on a strong day, kill the wing,
try to mushroom the wing? - doesn't happen easily. Turning 90 degrees
to the wind is effective, but rolls the wing up like a burrito and makes
a mess of things. Is there a magic formula for this that is completely
eluding my small mind?
- Les Hooper, Neil McGarry, Renata Parapente and 3 others like this.
Jim Hull I got a few landing tricks I can show you next time we go to the SS for a high wind sesh. Yesterday at 4:30pm · Like · 3
Carl Johansen I am not like these experts, but it has happened to me. It's easy to practice it top landing on the south side on a strong day. 15 feet or so above the ground I grab the c risers (out of 4) with plenty of time to find them and no need to flare. Then when I land I crouch, spin and yank. I usually forget to go towards the glider, but you're supposed to, they say. For folding I use spring clips from harbor freight and an accordion bag, so I can just sit there and not worry about the wind. Yesterday at 5:34pm · Unlike · 8
Justin Brim Carl nailed it IMHO. Hope the glider balls up and turns into a tangled mess so it won't wanna fly. Some tandem pilots use quick outs for this reason. I hear its a common theme in sun valley. It's possible to rig up an automatic speed bar release if you have quick out caribiners as well. Holler if you are wondering about that.Yesterday at 6:11pm · Like · 3- Jim Hull Just be a little careful about height - only let go of the brakes as high as you are willing to fall if you take a whack.Yesterday at 6:38pm · Like · 2
Loren Cox Carl Described exactly what I'd do... and have done once landing in Alpine when the north wing burst through the gap.Yesterday at 7:24pm · Like · 1- Carl Johansen Yes, about the brakes, once I dropped them completely, but it don't know if you need to, and top landing the south side I haven't bothered. They say you can control some with the c risers as well. Fortunately I didn't get hit with anything the times I've done it. First time was Peru, in Paracas, with my brand new p2 card in my pocket, and I screwed up killing the glider, and ran after it for a ways, swearing constantly until I decided to just pull a string until I got fabric, which worked. Then I practiced, and the next time, in central Utah, no problem. Correct me about the brakes, though, if you hear otherwise.Yesterday at 8:07pm · Like
Nate Johnson BackPack Pilot that is the exact situation I had in mind. I've always used my rear risers to kill my wing. Problem with that technique is that once you have the wing down you have a nicely built wall in front of you being pushed on by a 20+mph wind. It works just fine in light or no wind, but I find it to be problematic in strong wind. Carl Johansen, the technique you describe seems like it would be much more effective. In my case pulling my B's (three risers) and reeling them in to turn the wing into a lump of flopping fabric - I don't see any need to drop the brakes though. Then to 'wad' the wing up just keep reeling in the B's, and once I have a few feet of B's in my hand start gathering the rest of the lines. I've also heard of a couple pilots that pull the A's on one side along with the opposing rear riser. That seems like it would spin the glider into a ball, but I'm thinking if you get that wrong it could be 'interesting'. Does anyone have experience with that technique?23 hours ago · Like
Gavin J At Rosevalleylodge land without brakes, turn to face wing then quickly pull ONE brakeline all the way till the wing is disabled.22 hours ago · Like
Ken Paterson I have messed around with this a bit .c' s will get it down but be prepared to set into slider mode.I like the full frontal .drops way faster.rolls up like burrito22 hours ago · Like
Les Hooper Interesting... From what I have felt and it worked when being close to going backwards on the south side, I had used a little bit of brake pressure and ended up with a little speed bar to keep penetration till I was low enough, as soon as touching down released full brakes and grabbed the D's , but up high as then once pulled in the wing was more of a flag and you can just keep pulling them in and walking towards the wing.
The B's were the best but of course takes more effort to pull in and find sometimes.
Im sure in super high winds it maybe different.
I think some wings are also different to their attachment points so would react different. The brakes on some wings have a long brake travel and it takes a lot of brake line to pull it in to completely disable them.15 hours ago · Edited · Like · 1- Loren Cox We tested the full frontal theory on the south side before... problem with that was that it would often shock reinflate before it even hit the ground and yank really hard.12 hours ago · Like · 3
- Ken Paterson Ya I have only full frontalled it a few times.but mine dropped fast an rolled on its self.
Safest way is probably the c's an be ready for a slider12 hours ago · Like - Justin Brim The B's are a no go in my experience. too hard to pull and get the airflow to break away evenly AND the glider won't come down to the ground...it hovers about 8 feet above the ground and you can't let go at that point or it will reinflate...hard.
Jason Throttle Bruni Ive landed in some backwards wind before, little speed bar helps a bit but get ready to kill the wing. Grab Ds or Cs to put it down rather than brake lines which could cause the wing to turn into a sail and drag you some distance.
Chris Hunlow I do d's and c's with breaks in my hands and stall the glider when 1inch from the ground like an aggressive flair. Then run around the glider holding the "flair" until I touch fabric. A mess is the last thing I worry about if I put myself in that situation.
The quick release risers would be the better option if you had it.11 hours ago · Like · 1
Becky Brim So this happened to me 2 summers ago when I didn't quite make it to the point on an XC flight and landed in the wind that gets amplified in corner canyon. I could see my shadow moving scary fast backwards over the ground. I had to keep steering the glider through all of the last 50 ft or so so I didn't end up in a bad place (which was all around). This made it hard to have the C's in my hands for an insta-kill. As soon as my toes were on the ground I flipped around and grabbed the C's as hard as I could. I did tumble and was drug for a bit but it worked out ok in the end and I had the glider disabled pretty fast. A certain amount of luck helped me out there as well. I carried my glider in a complete mess to a sheltered area to fold it out of the intense wind and will use my harness, clothing, water ballast to hold fabric down to fold in the wind. Once you have all the cells bundled into your concertina bag then the bottom half of the glider is easy to manage. Hope you never have to experience this scenario. It sucked.11 hours ago · Unlike · 5
Jeff Ambrose I agree with everyone else's take in that it is best to not get into that situation...but sometimes it does happen. I am guilty. Flying from SLC down into Utah County last year on a low wind day....some unforeseen wind compression around Provo canyon snatched me and I ended up flying backwards....5mph or so. D's in one hand (stall one side), A's in another (collapse the other side). Hold high on the lines and pull hard together at touchdown as I spun around. Wing completely deflated, folded in half and turned into an un flyable ball of fabric and string. Maybe not the perfect technique, but it worked for me. Sure don't want to do that again.
Trey Hackney I've had to deal with this scenario while flying XC. Here's my $.02: My impression is that the C's do the best job (as opposed the the A stall/frontal - I agree with Loren that theoretically (and likely in practice), after an initial A stall, the canopy could explode back open and create a lot of lift, and a greater problem). If this is not the case, then it seems this may be a preferred method - but I'm personally scared of it - if the glider reopens (explodes open), good luck to you! Too risky and scary for me, so I prefer to go with the C riser disable technique. I agree with Hunlow as well, timing is critical; kill the glider just before touching down - the last foot or two. Even in a giant open prairie, when the wind is that strong, there is mechanical turbulence associated with drag on the ground -almost like a wave, and exponentially worse if there are obstructions to the airflow- try to choose your landing with the cleanest upwind airflow, and the least downwind obstacles - sometimes getting down on the ground takes extra long, and while moving backwards, it can be very difficult to judge where that will occur. Be prepared to fly your glider extremely actively and attentively all the way to the moment where you begin to disable (immediately before touching down). Judging when the touchdown will actually occur can even be tricky: keep in mind that you may feel like you are about to touchdown, only to be boosted 20' again due to the mechanical turbulence and lift, so don't give up the brakes too soon. I would caution against using speed bar that close to the ground in inherent turbulence, unless it is direly necessary - you are actively increasing the chances of a frontal, without sufficient recovery height. I've found that the biggest trick to disabling and NOT getting dragged, is to get enough rotational energy to get yourself immediately turned around 180 upon touchdown, and facing the glider so you can run towards it, disable, and gain control of one wingtip. This is a critical moment; if you don't get turned toward the glider, things can go bad quickly as you begin to get dragged, so give it all the muscle you have, arms, core, and legs. I think the most critical point here is to get turned towards the glider immediately - you have zero authority while still facing forward in blow back wind speeds. It's hectic, but I think you can get some of the initial rotational energy for spinning 180 during the initial C riser pull itself by turning your head to the side you are going to spin, dropping your shoulder, and pulling slightly more on that riser side and using every muscle you have to turn and chase the glider. In practice it seems like I can get about 90 degrees of rotation, maybe slightly more, but not all of it from pulling the risers - the rest of it happens when my feet touch down. At that point you have to rely on being scrappy and super quick and balanced on your feet to get turned all the way towards the glider, (which will still be lifting/pulling you to a certain extent) - but again, don't fall - that turns ugly almost immediately. Once touched down and running towards the glider, continue to haul in all the rear risers you can grab while sprinting towards the glider to minimize the amount of pull it has on you. Once you are getting closer you may notice it is still a huge sail with a ton of energy even when mostly disabled (depending on strength of wind). At some point you can't just keep reeling it in symmetrically - you have to get to the closest wingtip to truly disable it like a streamer by grabbing the closest wingtip, which means letting go of some of the other side's lines, and dealing with only the side you are going after. Make this super fast and only at the point that you have already gotten close, but the sail is too powerful to pull more in. Again, make it a fast and decisive move because the side you let go of may very well try to start to re-inflate again. Sprint and grab the wingtip no matter what as you reel in rear lines - tackle football style. In reality this is a hectic process, with a lot of power. You are minimizing a bad situation, and It probably won't be perfect, but just keep running towards it, and reeling in anything except the A lines - the last thing you want is for it to try to fly again. Simply put, reel in the C's preferably (or C's and B's if it's too hectic) and get to the closest wingtip, as fast as possible, at all costs. Regarding packing up: If you are in the middle of a huge field or for instance a prairie, and have no shelter to make packing easy, it is possible to concertina pack the glider from the wingtip by pulling the glider towards you from a "streamered" configuration, cell-by-cell. It will naturally be straight down wind (albeit not really flat on the ground, probably snaking around a bit off the ground - no big deal, just make sure it is oriented spanwise with the wind so it can't energize, and that you have it pinned to the ground by the wingtip with a knee). You can use this to your advantage, and just continue pulling it towards you chord-wise, and folding it cell-by-cell, and crimping what you have already gotten folded with both knees - this is an especially good time to remember to start breathing deeply again, and thank your angels and ask yourself how you got fooled so badly so the same scenario doesn't trick you next time. Once you have all the cell openings bunched and ready for a concertina bag, you can then hold them in place and turn the orientation, and let the trailing edge streamer down wind while you get it into the concertina bag (cells first so it will quit trying to inflate). And, most obviously, an ounce of prevention is worth way more than a pound of cure in this scenario. I know that was a little long-winded, but it's what I unfortunately learned from experience and hopefully it helps someone in the future. It is always a dangerous and scary scenario. Just keep your composure and make it happen.4 hours ago · Unlike · 4- Nate Johnson Wow! All I can say is thanks! I knew if I threw the thought out there I would get tons of experience and ideas back. The biggest takeaway I have here is, first and foremost, just don't get yourself in the situation to begin with. But, as a few of you have described, you can still get surprised. I can try and say it'll never happen to me, but you know what they say - never say never. So, I already know that using the rear risers alone doesn't work very well because that's always been my standard M.O. All it does is give me a very big sail to fight with. On my three riser glider all that leaves me with is B's, the frontal, and the asymmetric collapse with an opposing rear riser. I can definitely see how using the B's would do what Justin Brim describes, and could get one in a worse situation so that's out. The full frontal technique sounds good in theory - if you get it exactly right, but if something goes wrong and it re-inflates that could be extremely violent and NOT fun. That leaves me with the A/opposing rear riser technique. This sounds the most plausible and least likely to go wrong to me. If you do by chance lose the A riser and the asymmetric re-inflates you already have a hold of one rear riser and can fight the wing into a streamer - in theory. My other big take-away is ENERGY! No timid actions, no thinking about it - just DO. Run, sprint, grab, haul, spin, dance... and then breath, wad the wing in a ball and carry it to shelter for folding, or I especially like the concertina fold from the wingtip idea if there is no shelter. Thanks to all of you for all of your valuable input! Now it's time for a South side sesh and a few practice runs, so if I ever do need it I know what to expect.28 minutes ago · Like
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